VIP Video Library – Session 14

VIP Video Library

The Irish Accounting & Tax Summit

Session 14 - Updates on Welfare Pension Changes

Session 14 - Presentation

Session Transcript

This transcript was created using AI and may contain some mistakes.

Okay, good afternoon, everybody. Mmm. Okay. Sean, for the introduction, uh, we’re keeping it very, very simple today. Uh, we’re going to talk about, about social for all these pensions. Mmm. It’s an issue that came up recently at the election and some changes have come about with welfare because of the change in the government.

That’s been set up the coalition, the recent formation of new coalition governance, typical social ed for future patient qualifications plans on hold. Well for, I had got it of bringing in a new sister, Ashley July this year and, um, under Regina Doroty, they were going to bring the pension age from 66, up to 67 from January, 2041, whoever all of that is not going to implode.

Uh, the government incoming government has promised that they would have a commission and they will look at us the possibility of Mmm. When they will change the future pension age and the systems that are coming in with them. Okay. So I’ll prefer the oldest, a client’s pharmacy in January, 1965, December, 1960. We’ve continued to be awarded the pension at age 66. I picked January.

I picked December, 1960 because, uh, the future of is also includes a change to the pension age, not 6,768 for people born after December after December, 1960, January, 1961. So not a scan on stuff, two books. So the only thing that has been temporarily suspended is the age conference, 66 to 67. Uh, but it is planned like without a first,

since 2008, but the pension will go up too 68 in 19, 2028. Um, believe it or not, the pension used to be 70 years of age before the 1973. It has calmed down from 70 to 65 that the retirement pension, uh, over the years, the 65 pension hasn’t existed since 2014. So it looks like 66 for be here for at least the next three or four years.

Okay. They made topics that you would have to concentrate on today. Yes. Is procuring an insurance records for the times that you can look at an advisement. It might sound fancy counters. So I have to get involved in this, but believe it or not, your clients are at a disadvantage in that. Uh, if they rang the social welfare department,

they usually get through to a call center and they won’t get any good solid. And then I think of information for welfare. Uh, if they ask somebody in welfare at the age of 60, how will it be fixed for Frenchie? He went for a sexual saying, well, I’ll give you a copy of your insurance for our card. I’ll look up our website.

I’m fine to do your duty and not qualify for pension in future. Now compare that to what the British should. If you writes to the British section at the age of 16 pensions, Hey, I’m glad she gave you a forecast of, if you do this, between now and pension age, you will get a pension off 110 pounds a week. It’s very,

very precise information. They give. There is no such precise information available for welfare. So therefore it’s people like me. Aren’t by me talking to accountants who will be, who will be the only Avenue that the clients will have was making sure that they can plan their pension qualification for social welfare. Again, take into account, uh, all your ARS and your pension schemes and their new T statements.

The well for a pension part to give you a pension of 250 a week, but how few, about 300,000 euros and the pension funds. That’s not an insignificant song. Uh, when you consider that some of the schemes that you’re gaining got organized with her clients are worth a heck of a lot less even Irish life last year or last week stays that the average pension pot that anybody had at retirement days,

there’s only 58,000 bureaus. Compare that to a pension pot and wealth per, which would give you a pension to 250 weeks, which we considered to be around 300,000. Okay. So your clients will have to give you a copy of an insurance record for you to actually give him some advice as to how, how his pension would we’re catching future. Now,

funny enough, there’s an agenda in the social hour for ’em, um, uh, papers that come with the insurance, record that to go, to give them, uh, that has said vote to say that they asked you to reserve the right to counsel many contributions that are on file. If it’s decided, I just want to make sure that they’re wrong.

That’s still a little bit, as you have to identify correct errors well for his own insurance concentration record. So you’ve got to know where the, uh, where the pitfalls and where the errors could be. Mmm. Another thing that you’ve got to do for your clients, his advice about maybe, uh, filling in the gaps that may be there in the recent insurance record farther,

uh, it could be that they might have taken time out from the job. Uh, it could also be that the company wasn’t doing too well, particularly in, in, in, in light of the bid, the recession. So we thought the last 10 to 12 years, and it may be necessary for them to actually pay voluntary contributions for a few years.

Again, based on your advice, uh, you would be advised them to do certain things. I go into that in greater detail, I’d wrong, uh, on, on the actual test case that I have of a insurance record and the device at the time where it might be necessary to fill the gaps. There is a far as social, social security and our expenses.

Doesn’t the fallacy out there, including among accountants. But if you have maybe 10 years in Germany, you’ve got 15 years in Ireland and you’ve got 25 years in America or something like that, uh, that you would have them all adding their records together and you come out with one nice, neat pension. Well, so, uh, I mentioned to you on stays there because they have a bilateral agreement with the pension system,

as well as the EU. So it’s not just, uh, would it be you that you’d have insurance records being used to qualify for a future social efforts take contributed pension. I’d also give you an idea of how you can forecast the pension rate. Fine could have, and in, in maybe three or four years time, again, taking into account the slightly unknown situation with wherever we’re going kinetically.

But I do know that under the current system, it’s still possible to get the clients a very good idea. What kinds of pensions it could be getting into future increasing clients, future pension based on contributions that are not yet paid. It may be necessary to tell the clients that direct card at the moment would be sufficient to give them a pension of X.

Well, if it did such and such in the future, it be X plus, some gets a little higher rates. So they’re the main six points if we’re going to do with today. Uh, as I said, um, I can tell for ages about social aspect, but this pension thing is, is topical it’s it’s lively, uh, the recent election actually probably to the four.

So you’re as accountants probably be the only Avenue of information that your times would have. Mmm. About something as important as a contributor pension in future. No, uh, the ones in the past and some of you who’ve been around for maybe in the accounting business for maybe more than three or four years, you remember the days when you used to be able to fit in the forum for the times online,

send it off. And, uh, an insurance record would be sent out to the clients, uh, not so anymore. Um, the client was most, uh, signed up at<inaudible> and on that they will get it to the, my welfare<inaudible>. I can outline, request a copy of their insurance card, which should be given to them online or posted out to them within two or three days.

It’s as simple as that, you will have crossed that clients were not computer literate. So as I said, you can’t do that so many more, uh, as you used to in the past, look for a copy of the record. So it may be necessary for them to contact the department. Mmm. Either by phone, uh, true. They want to 96,

96, 19 number. Oh, by email to the general customer services team and social effort. Mmm. So it’s, it’s little bit more complicated, but then again, as time goes on, there are more people who are, who are, uh, linked up, but Molly go die, especially with people who were required to do so when they received the public service card.

So, you know, there was, you couldn’t look up in the public service card, but I’d actually go to the process. Right? In other words, you kind of use, he hearsay on the twine saying I worked from 82 to thus, and I did this at that. And because it’s the actual insurance record, that’s on five with Beaufort Lieutenant,

you declined how it would be fixed for patient the future. It’s an exact science. And for example, the clients had 519 weeks of paying peer aside and their entire working history. They do not qualify for social or for attention because you need 520 and you don’t start to qualify it. You don’t, there’s always, there’s no gray areas. So if you’ve only got 519 weeks,

then you don’t qualify. So if your client is not aware of that, knowing that if I got a job for one more week, I would get an old age pension. Uh, if they can’t get the 520 mix of pain cream site in their working life, then they do a Pasco and all of that sort of stuff. And the only option to have it,

that stage this to become a non-contributing pensioner, which means tested. I would have the eye of the department on them every year. If there’s any future changes in their, in their they’re their assets, what are the means that they have, right? Uh, so without the insurance record, you cannot give advice. Now, when you got the insurance record,

that’s a sad area. You’re wrong. Uh, the, um, caveats that went from again, but they give the record, this territory, they three pages of a preamble before the record. I, I, she shows I’m not States. Um, they will not stand over some of the maybe errors. So it’s up to you to identify these artists.

A lot of the errors are caused by no insurance red records for a year with a client will definitely was definitely working. So it’s the client itself giving you a brief summary of their work history, but then there are tweaks to the fact, the social effort record is incorrect, is incorrect for an awful lot of reasons, principally since 1979, social welfare for hubby and relying on revenue to collect and,

and, and to send on the insurance record, should the PRSI system payment ID, social insurance connects with the tax. So revenue had been doing enough for over 40 years for the department. And even though you might say, and these days everything is computer based, you’re a record that you’d be using for convention. We’d go back to the very earliest date that you started working,

which could even be before, like you said, nine, in which case that was done on a manual basis where the guidance, he used to go down to the post office, buy a stump, stick it on the car and send it to social efforts. But at least they were in control that, Oh, from 79 revenue have been like a detachment,

a connecting system for social welfare. Um, they weren’t particularly interested in the data. Uh, so snowboard interested in the money being collected. So they were actually having a clients with welfare who are relying an awful lot of the data being absolutely precise. I love it. And all of the area<inaudible> that we’re coming in. It’s the revenue from the revenue system in the early days,

79, the eighties and into the 90 season, we’re actually handwritten, manually issued. My employer is to the revenue. They will be written by people who may have the worst handwriting possible. That’s sort of being a doctor. Mmm. They insurance numbers of the PPS numbers that would be quoted on those PT complete 35 when they were being keyed in on mosque by a,

an army of, uh, clerics in the revenue system. If they couldn’t read a PPS number, they just jumped over some, they just teed in the Dodger saying 52 weeks plus, Hey, PPS number, rubbish, illegible. And off it went, okay. The HUD, the name, the date of birth with the clients that came into social work for them,

that note EPS from birth millions of those insurance records exist in the social welfare database. It’s called the emergency file. It’s been there on a Cuban, anything since 1979, uh, to date. So therefore that year that you had where the client might have had 82, 83, 52 per se, 83, 84 blank, 84, 85, 52 plus,

that’s an obvious missing year. Okay. Um, and the client says you’ve worked in continuously. That’s something that you’d have to get back on the social welfare saying, can you check that, that skip you have there with the millions of insurance records, call the emergency fund and see if our client’s record is on it. Nope. They, they, they,

they, they disconnect between, I should have the system work on the people who are not working there because I’ve actually done this for clients. Uh, they, they, the, the then call center tight load that you would get in your clients. If you ring social effort,<inaudible> uh, can you send us in a piece 60 for that’s your please?

They actually say that to clients. You’re talking about an 83 84 years and they’re sayings. But if you send this into piece 16, everything’s hunky Dory who has their piece six, he’s going back that far. Nobody. So, uh, I have a client where I actually rang, I got the plant to rain. It was during working hours. I was sitting beside them.

And I said to the client, because I couldn’t talk to the gravity book, our Weber wouldn’t talk to me because of regulations or third party inquiries. And I said to the client, ask them about the emergency fund. I just said, okay, hang on a sec. Uh, I could hear them checking. Yeah, we have that record here at 52 weeks.

Can you transfer that onto my record? Yeah, sure. Those that second year that we lost, we asked about as well, and we found them over the phone, but I had to talk from truth to find it those two years made the difference of 14 years a week. And that person’s pension that they were going to get. They now we’ve got a higher rate based on them going to the bother of getting<inaudible> for,

to check their own debates because they don’t check it. So be aware of it. Mmm. Well, for, uh, they database on the mercy has also got another file where you could find, uh, uh, peer side insurance records, uh, that’s called a hand over overthought. It’s not this there on the presentation because there’s unwelcome desk on that,

but it is another source of where the information missing information could be stored in a welfare control database called the hell over fire. Well travel office and social welfare is the office that looks out for the records. Okay. Uh, we can have any, uh, questions you have, uh, John<inaudible> a later stage at the end of the presentation. I’m sure we make time for it.

No, yes. You could also have a case where the employer was noncompliant back in the seventies, but the eighties, nineties are the loneliest by the employer. Didn’t fake yourself. Now, if the employee was in collusion with the employer, say, and the black economy, and then turned around at pension age and said, well, I was working for chokes off guard shunt road.

Uh, you, you should be at to take action against that guy to get my insurance record started and get me those contributions, which probably could be vital. Two qualifies pension, uh, well for, well, actually not allowed for contributions retreats in this pain. If they consider that there was collusion to the employee and the employer and not paying them in the first place.

So that is not an Avenue that’s open, uh, as, as a backdoor, Mmm. Entry into a, uh, an insurance record. I was at an appeal where the client actually was asked by the appeals officer, how much did you get paid a week? And he said that I got paid 40 pounds every week. Nope, straight away that’s black economy who gets paid in sacraments every week for four or five years versus insurance record must be paid.

So the appeals officer didn’t allow it on the basis that Mmm, they fit the client’s wall is being given cash in hand. I would not allow contribution to be treated as paid. There are other occasions when an insurance record may appear on silence, but it’s not good enough to qualify for a pension. In particular class, J J is appears high rate that applies to occupation injury all of day.

Uh, it is usually applied post 1991 to people earning that span say 25 30 pounds a week, which is not a 38 jurors that’s class change. However, before 1991 part time workers who are working less than 18 hours a week, I’m not dependent on the live. Being a vehicle for their lives were only paying to class chain rates. It may be affected part team of workers.

They work because if the steak, the steak, the steak that’s, or not depending on the age of your life, because her husband before. So therefore if the husband was earning a wage and she was prior to my working as a teacher at the local primary school, uh, I’m editing best done. Mmm, good. Regardless of what she was already,

if she’s working less than 18 hours a week, uh, she would not be live to a class, a Rachel parasite, therefore she was denied those eight contributions for those years. So in other words, you may see a J there, and that’s the reason for it. Any jr from 1991 is period. Simply somebody who’s already invested being contractual. Uh,

it would come as a shock to an awful lot of part time workers. Uh, no, to be told, but before 1991, the insurance market, they haven’t thought so some Cokes towards Guild and expansion. Mmm. Now this is another one where you would have a class aspect of pain coming in for a person who would, let’s say he’s a retired Mmm.

Eric phone worker. And he has rental income. And, uh, since, uh, 2014, a lot of two to a 4%<inaudible> side charge on that Brent Luco. So this guy thinks he could have retired in his fifties as an occupation as a, as a, as a, as a venture. Uh, and he thinks that these aspirate contributions are going to be accumulating a future pension type of,

of social effort. They don’t, the SPS rate does not apply to a person who is an occupational pen shirt, uh, who has got owner data like rental income. It’s a K rate. It just happens to be also a 4% rate. And a lot of accountants and clients think that this 4% is okay to put through as a mess, right?

It’s not, you may find the insurance record, you’re getting food well from about 52 those years, both they reserve the right to counsel those contributions, uh, for recommended prevention at a future date on the grounds that legislation does not enough. The owner data would be returned as aspirates for a person who is an occupational pension. Now, if the occupational pantry or also has Seth and clouds,

then the Esri will apply to the, uh, on our day correctly. So it’s a pain, a lot of counters kind of get their head around a person whose only income is, is, is a rental or investment. They can, they are insured at the SP, but if the person has an occupational pension, then SRA doesn’t apply. It’s K.

So that is something that is, I hear over and over again from accountants, but they think it’s a 4% rate. They considered that it’s reckless and all these friendships. It’s not the other, uh, employment that you would have for the premise will be paying tax and everything would be hunky. Dory is the employment of a spouse. The plotted of a spouse is still not insurable if he,

if the employment is in the nature of being willing as an employee. So in other words, the doctor, uh, who’s employing her husband as a receptionist. Oh, the doctor is a sole trading doctor. Um,<inaudible> spouse, who’s working as a receptionist, pays tax, but they don’t pay if you’re assaulted, it’s still no live up to a class,

a race, computer science, it’s about seven. So if you do have a client who is getting married, uh, they’d be working together. And one of them was a sole trader on the other person isn’t employee. But up to the time they get married, uh, the insurance of the employee is class a, but from the date they get married,

uh, they are not now insurable. And you would find at the, uh, a race, it doesn’t apply. So therefore you would say to them as their accountant saying, John, uh, you’re uh, working as a chef, um, Mary is the owner of the cafe. Um, you will say to Mary, listen, uh, no parasites to be deducted from Jones,

uh, income from now because you’re not married. And you’re the sole trader and he’s an employee. Uh, John, you should consider becoming a voluntary contributor because you’re going to have a gap on your insurance record from the on of the date that you stopped working, uh, for us partnering or sole trading partner. Uh, so that advice will be well taken buddy by the,

um, but by, by the time about the employee, as soon as she becomes a Proctor in the business, I’m not the sole trader anymore. Let’s say John Ben set up a partnership with Mary in the cafe or restaurant. No, the two of them were insured at the Esri. Also she sets up a limited company. No, he becomes a at the acreage because he’s now not worth for sole trading partners.

These are the kind of identifying insurance circus, like Navy on the record, you’re getting four for attention clubs, location, and you find that in future, those records will get counseling because there’s an error and the error has been caused probably by you as there were kind of no, uh, you can also advise, um, recent gaps, uh, in an insurance record because the unrelatable for any particular year is less than 5,000 euros.

Since January, 2011, 5,000 is the income threshold. Uh, you may find that somebody might take time to assess sabbatical. I thought stage, they may take area retirement and not stop paying appear aside, uh, because there are no taking, um, uh, there they’re, there are no they’ve sold the business, et cetera, et cetera. Mmm. So in those particular cases,

you would still have to have a copy of the insurance record to find out, is there any point in the future, Oh, this person become involved as a contributor. And the reason why you do that is because it could very well be that you could advise them to be just on the safe side because it’s February. Mmm. However, the lightening date,

any reason to do so, because if the, if the average test is still there, um, and that’s a pension qualification system, uh, where the other period chart entire records about number years, you, they pay you a certain rate based on the average that you get to. And if you see that the record they have, it comes to 30.

One of an average over their work a year on the average test is the best option they’re going to have in the future. But the next average range would be 39.5, which is 40. I know there is tendon conjunction traveler to increase the rounds from 31 to 35 is a waste of their money, kind of very bad, uh, piece of information,

the contents to the client, because they are wasting the effort they’re over insuring themselves for something that would give them no extra benefit pension age. However, if you did see a guy and his average is 38, and he’s got two or three more years to go before he gets to the pension age, you just done the Matson and you find that another 52 weeks for two years,

the brain that around which you have to 39.5. And because, well, for round up there are averages 39.5, it’s 40. Now all of a sudden they can get an extra 25 years a week. And our pension for the sake of pain, 500 a year for all voluntary contributions for two years. So let’s say they pay you a thousand to invest a thousand euros and two years of voluntary contributions to get an extra 25 years a week,

the pension for the rest of their lives. That’s your job as accountants to make sure that you’re giving qualified advice, find to make sure that they are maximizing their future potential, like come into there at the bottom. There always calculate the pension before advising, you may find the voluntary contributions. Uh, a lot of you considered the Vontu Confucius Confucian be just 500 errors.

That’s exclusively for persons who are self employed. But if you, if you have a guy who’s leaving, uh, I’m going off, uh, to write that book and he’s going off to the say shouts or something. Uh, and he’s got a few more years to go. He was lost an employee. Well, well for that, she charged 6.6%

of his last income before he was when he was with us paying PRSI. If that goes on on a hundred grand a year, uh, about six and a half, 6,600 a year, that you could be paying in voluntary contributions. And let’s say his average is 46, and you wanted to bring them up to an hour to 48. There’s only a difference of five years a week between those pension rights.

And if you were telling him to invest 13 rounds to get an extra five years a week, that’s also about advice. Yeah. As an accountant, you can do the math on that and find out it’s really not worth it. Okay. Mmm. You may also find that the other system that welfare are using for the next foreseeable future to qualify a pen shirt to a pension is the total conservation approach,

which I’ll explain in greater detail, but basically it’s got a target. Yeah. 2080 weeks PRSI, which is exactly 40 years. So if the guy has already got 2080 weeks in the back pocket, up to the age of 60, there are these going off to do that, write the book and go on sabbatical. I got off the Seychelles. He’s already got the maximum required to get the full pension paid.

So therefore telling him to become a volunteer conservator I’m paying six and 6,000 year. If he’s previously been an employee is very, very about advice. Uh it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s, um, it’s just unbelievable. An accountant would actually be so lazy as to advise just in case, but then you can actually do on behalf of the client, the calculations,

but we’ll find out, but there’s nothing to be gained. It becomes a long term treatment. No, again, as I said, already, wrong social security in different countries, uh, EU countries, uh, 27 from January, 2021 onwards, uh, because the UK is leaving, but however, you should remember, there’s no danger, uh, but losing the UK as a contributor into pension schemes for your Irish clients,

because even before we joined the EU, Ireland had a bilateral degree with the UK since 1960, uh, called the RA 60 reciprocal arrangements, 1960, where are the UK have been sharing insurance records going back that far for 60 odd years. So they will revert back to at least that kind of a situation. Even if there’s a luxury of Brexit, it would still be a reciprocal arrangement between the UK and our,

for pension purposes. Uh, other countries have a bilateral agreements with EU countries, USA, Australia, New Zealand tend to create Japan, Switzerland, et cetera. Uh, so therefore it is possible that if you have a period of time in these countries, you could qualify for a pension from them. Or if you had a problem in our deficiency, in qualifying in Ireland for pension,

let’s say you had that, you hadn’t got the 200 or 520 weeks appear recite pain in Ireland. You could use any of these other countries insurance to give you the access to an RF pension. Now there isn’t, as I said, eight Oh, a wand of peer SSI and social security conservations that puts them all together on one country pays you the big pension.

It doesn’t happen that way. You can qualify independently for as many pensions as you have paid into it. In other words, if you have sufficient Patriots for the Italian system that gives a pension, you can get that pension with a pension age close. If you have sufficient, also an arch, you get a reduced rate pension. You can also get that friendship.

The only time that they would use another, you are bilateral countries. Insurance records is if there’s a deficiency in your pension payments here. So you could have a very, very small pension of $99 a week because you have sufficient to qualify that independently and also get a pension from the UK because you have sufficient Derrick 10 years insurance over there to qualify for pension from that.

So you’ve ended up maybe getting three or four pensions, three or four different countries. They don’t have to add them all together. Now when they do have to have them together, just because you’ve got an efficiency and true of one of them. So if you’ve got only five, yeah, and you’ve got 40 years of insurance in the UK, David Hughes,

UK, plus the artist record together. And if that turns out to be what night, all of your entire insurance record and we’ll pay you, it’s sufficient to qualify for a pension. So you would get that pension, that’d be a lower rate. It won’t get the maximum rate. You would get that pension. End of story. However, you can then ask the Irish authorities.

And by the way, you always have to go to the, the baby authority. Yeah. Welfare is authority of the country. You’re living in to organize these. So your last pension that Saigon to get onto the UK, Germany, Italy, let’s say no. Uh, how can I qualify to Derrick’s? What happened there is that they would combine all the records together,

the UK, but the proportionality off the record that is UK will be paid in the pension over there. So as I say, there, uh, ours pension<inaudible>, you get mentioned, it would be proportionate. So the record of all of the records, uh, over all of the countries together, and how much of it is UK. If you sell a pension again,

all of the records together, I’m a portion of the record that was German dictate. Uh, the, the pension paper there, Italian the same thing over and over again, all the records together. I need the mountain, the number of weeks that you have in the Italian system, but then dictate the proportion of the pensions paid by them. The rate of pension at the moment,

uh, since 2000 and, uh, AIG, and they introduced new in installation to add to a different system of the average test. Before that the average test, that’s the only game in town at the moment. You’ve got two games in town. Well, what the Lieutenant is, they would use both, uh, tests, how whichever is the highest they will pay you.

So the average test is it has simplicity forums. Uh, if you start from work in 1980 and you were pension age in 2020, uh, the average will be over a fourth year period, all your record added together as it comes to one of the ranges, uh, average ranges, you’ll get a pension based on that. Uh, I have it in greater detail in a second.

So I’d show showing the examples of the different ranges. Uh<inaudible> there are some exempt exceptions on the number of years here to the average test. Again, I’ve explained that in greater detail, in a moment, uh, the, I would get contribution that trips off the tone also known as the total contribution approach, which I think is going to be the name of it in the future.

Yeah. Great contribution method of things that temperament that uses a template of 40 years, 2018 weeks. All right. Your insurance record to find out if you have not, you’ll get a full pension max at the moment, 3,250 years. If you’ve got less than 2018, you will be paying a pension proportional to that figure. So, as I said earlier on,

if you’ve got, uh, what does the 40 weeks of orange social security contributions and your entire work record, then you have get half with just two Oh eight<inaudible> you’ll get half pituitary, 48 euros hundred and 24 years old. It’s as simple as that, it’s a very, very simple thing to do. Now, the reason why that was brought in,

because the average test goes from your date of entry into insurance, uh, providing us before you’re 56 years of age, uh, two the year before Penn state. So in other words, it was possible for a person in their fifties to start working for the first time in Ireland. That’s a, the Polish plumber that comes over in his fifties and starts working in Ireland.

Oh, that’d be average tests. Uh, he would get all of us contributions divided by the nobody hears from this eight entry into insurance to the year before I mentioned age. So in his case, it would be over a 16 year period. So his average is very, very easy to come to 48. So he ended up getting the maximum pension.

Whereas the person who started work in 1975 took time out, didn’t do anything for awhile. And then came back into insurance back in the nineties, you have the Roberts test from 1975 to the Everett for pension age, which will be an elongated period of time. Um, obviously his pension would be much, much lower the curse. You only start for working for the first time,

15 years before they start before they got to return. So that was to address us anomaly in the sense of, uh, they brought him the total aggregate of your constipation, total contribution, the crunch, uh, where is a fair system on space, on the proportion. All right. Weeks of insurance in Ireland, based on the template of maximum pension,

we paid for 2008. That’s basically it, right? No, here’s the average test on there. The different ranges you still need 10 years appears. I paid before you get Costco. If you don’t have 520 weeks of regular peer sites, Hey, which is working weeks, not credits has been working with, uh, then you will, we will have all the other equations built in,

uh, about the outage going from that date. So that date, um, the number of years that they were using, they would use in patient population. So you can see there, the difference between the person knowledge of 10 99, or if the person has 48, an extra hundred 50 years, 248. So it’s total easy, but actually,

well, there’s those there taking time out on both grounds for period of time. So in other words that got, did, uh, ha in Italy or Germany, or do you let’s do that. Okay.<inaudible> 60 minutes in the, in the back pocket and still get it all those years paid. So the system, you don’t buy those together.

You got one of these conditions satisfied all the best. You will get a pension, uh, apparently, or all I was telling you about becoming a volunteer, et cetera. Uh, that guy, who’s got an average of tardy and he’s about to return soon, got four years ago. Uh, he’s not going to get the two<inaudible> 2008. What are the alternatives?

And he’s thought to be recessed, Hey, for three or four years not to increase his outreach.<inaudible> you got an extra, uh, 15 hours a week. So it would be bottled advice if you’ll be tested nice and passionate possible is the average check. So you can see there, the mathematics, however, if it’s just 38, I just got 228 cost loop mentioned already in the back.

Well, he did pay two more years, which brings them up to 39.5, the dandy crazy it’s rounded upwards, extra 15 hours a week. Okay. That’s for 15 years a week, it’s worth the investment. You getting them out to lunch. You should say voluntary contributions, two, three, four years to get an extra 15 years. There’s another thing here.

That’s not, it helps with the presentation, but it’s an, insidery a piece of information. I’ll be total social effort pinched off the, to the pensioner<inaudible> who is not working, has it not no access to it? You mentioned in their own right.<inaudible> qualified payments based on the rate. So, whereas if you didn’t advise the guidance from both the 37 average,

two 39, but only 228<inaudible> Oh, the on it. Oh, five payments will be reduced as well. So it’s not also be reduced proportion because his LinkedIn to the rate, the pension, it can, it can make a difference, but the quality of that. Mmm. Okay. Uh, the average test has got a Mmm. Flaw.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Take your time out to look after children. The only we’re under the age after April. So that whole homemakers came on. He came in in 1994 from that date forward.<inaudible> let’s say you’ve got an entire record the five year period. Mmm. It’s going to be your propensity period, but YouTube to look after children under the age of 12 for five years from 1999.

Okay. And you weren’t working. You can get those five years taking all the average calculation. So set up heavier record divided by 45. That’s five years to take five years off. And you have the orange County, 40 years. I don’t eat pies in the chest. Well, April 19, 19 also have periods of time not taken to the car for an elderly parents,

94 weeks with work to do the same home care is all total. This, uh, the concession that pose hears Postmates or before they took time until the guards Jones we’ll be taking off some reviews. Yeah, it was calculators. Yeah. The childcare is on me. Perfect. So you have a parent who took time out, let’s say in most cases,

uh, it was the father. Okay. Being paid to the mother and that didn’t change for him period of time. The father took time off two children. Yep. He couldn’t get credit for that period of time. However, because he wasn’t on the child benefit. It’s not possible for the pension section to easily verify that situation. If a motor this time they’re taking time out,

what else? I have their database off the Monday page. Those and they have the record. What are we in the father’s situation? They won’t have that. So it’s up to you to advise the father, especially, Oh, apply homemakers, number one for them. So the home resection and social effort ask them to register father as a person, we took time out to the car.

So did that before you get the pension age, it’s better to have that in it. Instead of having everything at the time, you get to Penn state to go through that process from the very, very start. So it’s advisable to do so you can also say that the person needs the time and effort. Okay. And that would be a person.

Would it be terrorists? No. If they’d receive pairs, that’s verifiable by Weatherford, whatever. If let’s say they had an independent income that didn’t qualify for the means test and carrots, and they have no payments.<inaudible> contention for children. No, you should again, complete the hatred in one form homemakers to open top on record. Okay. It may need an investigation,

but at least it’s better to do that. No. Before you get the pension age, well at the time close to you, because you’re correct. Uh, there are alternative years using the average test. Let’s say, for example, I’m not sure if you’re a Tolkien, but pier aside from self employed only could have been 88. Uh, so class was introduced.

It did not exist before that. Again, I will be willing the reasons why you might see a black wreck. So you see a guy didn’t share this record in 1980, you worked for X floor as an employee. How do you have a rapier side? And then it disappears off the radar. And then you only have record records. We have an ADA,

but that’s a guy who loves the work and then set up his own bins. I didn’t test and stuff. Blinders. No, if he was a director because directors are on PAYG because you have to pay their health. Maybe it’s on contributions. That’s fast for the period. That person was the director of the company. And then you see class S because the director of the company that became insured on the seven regulations from ADA.

So that’s another reason why here’s before 88. Mmm. There is concession for anybody who paid per site. The yes, space day, we’ll do the outer chest. They we’ll use ADA as the date of entry. I’m there for us and average your insurance record over the necessary. And they will ignore the previous period. You made insurance employee before.<inaudible>,

it’s a conceptual under the arms test. I wrote a letter to the, uh, I actually wrote, Mmm farmer’s journal last year. I wish I pointed out that there was no such concession being offered under the total contribution approach, cardiography contribution. It uses 2080 weeks to pay the with pension. It was an anomaly in the situation. They should do something.

The minister at the time said, we will do something about it today. There was no legislation allowing for that same kind of concession under the total contribution approach. As you have under the average Fest, the logic is that ADA there aren’t 40 years for ADA to date to get the 2018 contributions. Well, did he a token contribution approach? So therefore it’s an injustice to the self employed that has not been catered for him and the legislation.

And that’s probably because of that, be an action never actually got written up or never went to the drawing. Social loafer still haven’t brought a concession under the new 2018 test for qualifying for the Watson pension. Now, if you have a client who didn’t Aaron enough in ADA days, I’m paid their first contribution in 89, 90 tough. They will go back to the area of dates for the average Testament.

So it’s only people who have 52 contribution. The, if you’re not, we get the conceptual to the evidence of having been tests from that date, uh, for a lesser, a period of years, uh, uh, accountants of a certain age will remember that those attacks on the state, the DRD nineties, a lot of people started that the bills that the Hill to revenue and included in those bills was a pure site charge.

However, a lot of people did not finish off the paperwork and you may very well have a case where they actually paid everything from ADA. So 1990 and 1991, uh, they have no, no astounding liabilities for that period, but the records were never physically presented and it’s created a need for them to offer, to actually have a record from that.

So it may be necessary to actually as an accountant to go in true revenue, um, making sure that those records get forwarded along social effort for the ADA plus steers. Um, there is also another system under the average test that if you’ve got an average of 48 from April 79, which was the introduction of parasite, the first introduction Peter saw, Hey,

well, I know you have the full rate pension, regardless of what you had before that none of us did use 79 is the data. If you had a record before that, providing us from Sunday nights and uniform pension age, you ended up at an average of 48. It only exists for people who end up 48. If it’s an average of 47,

it will go back to the earlier year, no child and credits, uh, you, when you got a copy of the insurance record from social effort, it will not include child’s credits. It’s an implied credit situation. If it only be dealt with the pensions. So don’t expect to see credits on the record, uh, of the record being provided.

It doesn’t exist.<inaudible> will be looked at when the pension qualification is being done. Normally see home Curtis credits. So you won’t see any of these kinds of credits on the system. Mmm. Okay. Now, as I said, do the average test that alone, you use home carrying a child, carries Postmates notes. They will. Now there are obviously years for the purse for the child would be reaching 12 that’s prior to the year on the pensions credits for the part of the year where the child was under 12.

So let’s say there were, okay. The child was 12 in July, uh, 1999. You don’t need a full years for the district art in the average test. So the use 88, 89 to April as a full year at district art. Well, it’s from 1999 because the child was in the texture, uh, reached pension or reached at age 12,

July 13 credits from April 99.<inaudible> again, you would not see that on the insurance, but you could use it in your calculation when you’re doing your calculation for pension. Mmm. Yeah. As I said, there, the balance event a year also the child may be barred. Obviously its child is born. If he’s close, Chuck was born post 1994,

uh, the first shot, uh, they would give a credit from the beginning, from the, the day that the child was born to the end at that touchpoint. Mmm. Okay. So that’s a credit that will be used as a pension calculation, which will not, which will not appear well, the insurance record. Mmm. Liz, can you keep me in time with be and touch the time there?

It was about 10 minutes. Okay. All right. Thanks. This sounds familiar. Okay. If you’re finished. Okay. I’ll just continue on that. Sorry about that. Uh, now another thing that you’ll get when you start insurance and the system is if you started working during the tax year, you would actually get pre entry credits to the beginning of the year because they’re going to be using a full year in Apache calculation.

Uh, so the creative credits are given to make it a fair assessment. So if you start to work, say halfway through a year and you have 26 contributions for the year, they would give you 26 branches credits for the palace of yours would be in here as well. Not always shown on the insurance records provided. Okay. Mmm. Now before 1899,

the women’s a year went from July to June. That’s you should write down or keep a record of it because the record for a man before 1979, January to December. Wow. What a bit of a minded one taking into account the extra 13 weeks you have up to April, 1979. So that was the women about half year, half year, July to June the bins before like 79 went from calendar year.

Uh, now we’re all about to counter your, since 2001, well take into account. You’re going to be looking at historical Tajik. So you do have to know, but the years actually changed. Uh, there was a very weird as we’ll call the change of status credits. You may have clients who are involved in public service, employments, uh,

Eric ESP, employees who are paying the butterfly B, C and D rate, which doesn’t qualify some pension. I would always advise them after they retire from public start a civil service job to take up a job for at least one week. It does. It’s possible. Uh, the credits that they will get for taking up the class, any rate,

computer science, credit’s changed, called change of status. We’ll give them an extra boost into an old age pension qualification. Uh, I had one guy who didn’t do that. His pension ended up 50 years, a weakness, uh, the pension he could have gotten if he actually worked for one week. It’s as simple as that, it’s an exact science,

always advise your clients to take over the seven plums does enough generate these changes out of sprints. So even if it, God has plans to go with the self employment, after he gives up a job in public service, it was love to take off one week of applying. All you need is a child with 38 years for a week credit. This little roll in would qualify for a higher rate pension in the future,

not to be ignored. The aggregate contribution method is based on the template of 2000, 80 weeks, 40 years of career stop. Uh, everything is under that period will be done, will be calculated portion. Again, the credits, all right, in this case, we’re looking at the children will be age 12 are not limited to post 1994. They will be given for ever period.

Uh, they exist. So those were his, this was the, uh, one of the reasons why they brought in this know that was for women who took time in the seventies and the eighties and early nineties to get the benefit of these child care credits. Uh, so you will have, uh, a greater number. People having these credits going towards the 2008,

all these credits are, are tucked under the conservation benefit. So under the contribution method gone are the days where the guy could work for 10 years and Sundance the next 35, because the credits would be cut. Uh, the whole period credits are kept at the toes of 40. The Albany credits are cap. That’s the last line there. The army credits like little plug in this,

a cap of five 20. So again, if you have a client and you look at this record at a time that they have the title is the 40 credits looking after children and they’re retiring at the age of 60. Should I pay more contributions into the system? I have the 2018. No you haven’t because<inaudible> so therefore you will never do a calculation saying,

yes, you need some conservators to get the hiring because are not at the maximum number of credits that are level so signing on for the rest of the time. But the age pension, not to mention age, it’s not an option. It’s a waste of time. Uh, examples, a tie bar nine 55. This is the Paris new tall books.

The connection that there were going to have to wait from 67, the old expansion they know, not do not know to not have to do they haven’t got their pension next year, at least 66, Mmm. Record shows 1980. Client’s average will be from 1982 the year before pension age. Not so because the reference that was shown again, I go back to what I asked.

I told you earlier on asked the clients that they’re applying to districts because, but this kind of got onto me. She said, well, I worked in the civil service from 1975 to 1978. Therefore<inaudible> 1975 is the date of entry. Even though the record shows 1980, again, the reserve, the right to change the record, the widows and orphans contributions that were okayed.

Mrs. B the class B, C and D. Oh, stop. Will it be used? I would say year of entry with them not actually, they use themselves in the calculation because the class B, C and D used to be known as the middle and orphans do not count towards the of expansion. So there was this person called 1980.<inaudible> 2000 and trying to,

it’s not, it’s no over 48 year period from 1975, 73 two the year before Penn state, which brings her pension down to 243. Okay. Uh, I tried sometimes to change the status in 1980 because they were paying the reduced rate and they done went back into insurance. Don’t forget to change the status. Now I’m just going to go back to this one.

There’s a record here in 19 2014, 2014 52. O’clock that’s good because she already has a record, but I noticed there’s a mistake there as well. Let’s say she hadn’t got the, a on you’re relying on the 52 class, those 52 o’clock status in 2014. Okay. The concept, if that’s an accountant have to return to this process, I’m not sure if fact they should be cascade.

This person was not allowed to pay class. Oh, the rent makeup. That’s friends naked. I can see that like a book. Okay. I’ve got to move on because we have a very different time. Uh, another example, Carson, who is getting bar 55<inaudible> this person worked in the UK.<inaudible> okay. And a non EU, uh,

but Africa country from 74 to 2000. So they will not be in a child credits for DNS the country. So you do have to have that mystery of what they were doing to actually do this calculation. You could have not asked them question. I’m behaving child crimes because the child was born before life starts to fall. But as soon as they leave the country,

they are not. So that person’s average is down to 200, uh, because the average would be 24, over 40 years, 47 years. Now the average giving them a thumbs contribution advice for average of 24 will not bring it up to the answer of term party because there aren’t enough years left. So those that would be bad advice and say trigger.

Okay. Mmm. I’m going to move on here, but great timing. Veneer deal. Five minutes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Mmm. Okay. Uh, I, again, sorry. I’m just kind of exactly too. She worked abroad. Uh, yeah, I’ll do two calculations. The average is 24. Well, we’ll come to a patient 211 tells the contribution approach or aggregate contribution method.

She would have never in 185 weeks. And that would come down to us. A proportion of 2018 to the max comes to a finish to the hundred and 99. Well, head start will pay the higher rates too. That’s how they would do it. Uh, I would keep in touch. Okay. Well for true Twitter, uh, or, uh,

true sign deal with press releases, uh, on their website, uh, to find out what changes are coming down the line, uh, with the social offer, uh, pensions, because a lot of days I’ll have to give you the surveys because this is the current of, but I do notes, but at some stage, the average test will be about,

we don’t tell them the commission that they’re setting up. I would probably advise on that. So keep in touch with any change that the commission advisors on the total contribution approach, you’re not the only change that I can see to that because it was in touch with the okay, but when for, uh, TDS committee last year, they are arguing for attorney here rather than the four tier template.

So instead of having 2018, they were going to be looking for it and it didn’t turn into your periods to get the maximum connection. That’s about the only thing that could change, but all we can deal with is what we know for a fact. The fact is these are the rules we have at the moment. Do keep it until it’s just said to,

to welfare a true Twitter, uh, as to what can change the line. Oh, I’ve got to jump over this. You can see that that’s the kind of record you would get from social effort. Uh, those pre 1979, uh, red cards that they have. Yeah, the, a, B, C, D, and all those tasks rates.

They only came into being in 79 when they came to a revenue system, everything before that was an inhouse or D is the RB rate. Uh, so you’ll see on the third column there, it will tell you whether or not of those countries, uh, as you can see there, you can see 79, 84 to two plus eight, 10 plus I know the record of this.

You have 42 because the M it’s not in Germany. It doesn’t cut it. Okay. Um, that’s what I said to you in your own words to the Q and a Yup. Yup. Alright. Sure. And then just have some questions in here. And so I have a client who paid over 15 years, parasite on our settlement Rio Rio overseas account when it came to pension,

Deborah discount, because joining those there those years, he was getting farmers door. He’s being refused to refund, even though he is not, he was not liable for PSI in those years. Is there any way to try to get, Okay, farmers don’t pharmacist, uh, specifically anybody restate a pharmacist excluded from paying class aspect of peer Sonics up to January, 2007,

only from January, 2007 onwards kind of belong to class as having been grievous in pharmacists. So, and I’ve seen, I worked in sculpt section before I retired, and that was forever a bone of contention for primary community. And where did the wear that under regulations? They were there. They should not have been paying<inaudible>, uh, there’s nothing you can do about it.

Uh, the four year, uh, limit for a refund. Well, the only be given a that’s been in place since the mid nineties, mid nineties. Uh, so if the, if January, 2007 is after his 56th birthday, then he will not qualify for pension because one of the conditions for qualifying for pension is you have to enter insurance before your 56th birthday.

No, if it’s 56 parents that he was after tenure in 2007, and he’s on an average test hoppy days, because he’s now got class S contributions over a very short timeframe, which we call a sign for pensions. I imagine this guy is already over pension and has it been shut down, uh, of using any kind of contributions before January, 2007, Under fast products,

brought them out really oversees accounts that are 15 years pure stay under segment three overseas accounts with that. Sorry, if you’re receiving a pharmacist or social worker system, uh, well, what your what’s your account that should really have a look out there? I know you use 1997 this day, social lab practice, 2005. Should I do a one of the 2005 consolidates,

not parts one, two, and three is the thing you should print off. It’s pretty about four or five pages. That’s what you should have in your, in your, in your folder when you’re, when you’re talking to your clients, because that lists all the exemptions that you will not be paying payments on it. Uh, part one defines who’s an employee cartoon defines who shouldn’t be paying parasites.

How’s an employee on par three, uh, defines who you should not be paying as a separate blood person. That’s pharmacist is listed in 2005. So approximately two, three of the first schedule, 2005 central Africa. Hey. Yeah. So just anyone who wants to leave, they can leave, but I think these are very beneficial questions. So I want to continue there if you’re okay with a Brendan.

Absolutely. Go ahead. And as far as working for someone to train her husband voluntary contributions of 500, maybe. So how can I do this as an employee? Because they’re employed, they’re working for they’re celebrating husbands, Hey, pay 6.6% as about contributor other extroverts, which when you think about it is not too bad, because prior to the date they got married because they were working same situation.

Uh, they paid 14 point something percent. It’s 4% pure aside from the played and 10% for the employer. So it’s gone down to 6.6% and you still are paying into a pension system. So it’s 6.6% is the point. I’m anticipating that the cook, there may be a misconception that the person who is exposed, who’s working with the cell tradings files.

That’s not a person who’s working for sole. Training’s fine. The person he’s working with doing the same are the salary. Tufts. It been live since January, 2014 because the nonprofit and the business to pay class, that’s what most liberal plate contract off contract form. So you’re your, your question era there, your questioner may be thinking about something where the person is working with the sole trading spouse.

Alright. Yeah. If it’s weighted ClassPass percent, if it’s participating in rugby business with the other spouse, I deal to spend as a sole trader, but there are in garbage, then they’re aligning to class. So in other words, if you have a client who has been not live to pay peer response for a sole trader as an employee, but no realize nothing untoward or nothing dodgy about this,

she was like, I really I’m running the business. Well, I’ll know the folks on their P E for convenience purposes, you can make a case to social effort.<inaudible>, how’d that realigned as somebody, since January, 2014, who’s doing the saber and insidery tests working with, there was five of us in running the business. Now, as an accountant,

it’s up to you to read stuff personal as a sole trader in their own rights, but the income they’re getting as a sole trader it’s coming from the other sell tractors business, right? If a client only qualifies a hundred contributory, but they wish to continue working, will they be penalized under noncontributory pension? Not contributing. Pension has means testing every time you read some non-contributing.

So it means testing re review. When you signed the application form, uh, for the non-contributing pension, you actually sign a declaration that you will put in three months, if any change in your financial circumstances. So having done so they will reassess for means test based on the, of your house. Again, those things that you would take your prompt because of the age profile,

people that we’re talking about, they are more likely to get an inheritance from a deceased brother, sister, relative let’s throw on the means testify to the qualified items. They should be aware of the fans and obligations outside of the carpets. All of the changes are from us with circumstances. Oh, that means testing. The answer is it depends. Like if you’re a qualified adults,

you had no income that’s means tested your husband’s on a maximum pension, 248 years children for dangers week. Um, and you, um, you’re, you’re on a two or three years, a week qualified and you’ve got to jump provided by Chubb is since more than a hundred years a week, it doesn’t affect your quality. So between a hundred years,

week and three, 10 a week, it would be a reduced print leveled at the house. We didn’t that range. Thank you. The next one, if the person has left the company traveling, I may not return home outside Europe. Can they apply to our pension? I have chronic or have qualifying contributions in that case, if they’re going, like I said,

a sabbatical, and then she did my presentation there, or they take time out to who’s not Villa or write the book. They should become a voluntary conservator again, providing then done the lesson. A young person will always be told to go and volunteer thirties, forties. But if you have somebody who’s near a pension and they already have sufficient paid to qualify for the best intentions on you as an accountant will be the best price and good guys based on the presentation we have for today only to qualifies the max.

There’s no point to the company long. Yeah. Is it better? There’s probably not easy. I’m sure it’s a better, is it better of average price versus that I can test them? Well, if you’re talking about somebody like, uh, who’s say in their early fifties, mid fifties, well, you know, the Irish test will be knocked in the head eventually because it’s so unfair.

Uh, on the aggregate booklet, the seven contribution approach is more likely. Then now you’re using the 2000 it’s just 40 years. So if there are of an age where they still couldn’t possibly anything there for two years, it’s melting the same pay into the system. Cause it make it easier for you at the end of your career. Um, then just the question of right,

gets us to is in relation to, let’s say, um, I business is, is carried on in the house, on their children. Let’s say I don’t share them work in the business. Uh, and they also live in the house in that particular case. Is that, is the child there? I know he’s not tried or she’s not a choice anymore.

If that choice fast at M or would it be class a or is that too late or they’re not quite sure. No, no, no. Well, okay. It does have to certain senses. If you have a house, a private, private to adding on parts of the flight, it’s funny attached to, it would be instead a Pope or shop,

and that’s a defined area and you apply your son to your daughter in the club or shop you’re not no. Okay. Employed and residents in the business area. So in that case, it’s kind of saying that’s an employee, the seminars, you can employ your next door neighbor. Uh, the farming is much easier. One actually, I’ve got another example of it as well.

I’ll give you the farmer. The farmer just easier, you know, as in the same place and pharmacy one is not insured, kind of pay periods side he’s exempt class. Then let’s say the husband and wife had set up a partnership from the date, the partnership set up. So there’s no employee of Solon trading prescribed relative. He’s now an employee of approximate from that day.

He comes to church. Okay. The other example that have non farming on as a case I had, when I worked at it’s called section, well, there’s a woman who employed her solar, her tour in the crash and the crash was being run at the family home, all the purest side of it. They hunt well, it was canceled and refunded because it was sent from parasites to a hub for schedule.

I gave you the 2005 consolidates that’s missing there. And Claude, the scribe grounds for the upload work is being done in the common hall. Let’s exempt. Um,<inaudible> Okay. What happened was she was applying for something, their daughter not insured, but she then bought a second house around the corner in grades. I set up the crush there from the date that they started having the business being ruined in the second property around the corner.

That’s when they became insured. What if the, how to just divided the house up and said, I’m going to run a Chrysler to this corner of the house. If you have a defined part of the host, it’s like an office, then that’s where your business will be done. It’s not part of your, your nose. You’re registering premises as a business as well.

Uh, then you would have a person who would not be, be employed in the common home of the employer or the, I gave you an example. Previous next year I’ll have a case for it employed his song as a carpenter. They had a shed at the back where they did all the carpentry work under appeal and social effort. They won the case.

Agreed the appeals officer I thought was not being caring. Yeah. Um, just one more than just, if you have a 50, 50, let’s say shareholding in a company, on a spouse, um, he’s working in the company and one of the other spouses, a 50% shareholder, and I picked her case. Or would you be seeing that as a spouse who was an employee in a class Aide?

And I picked her case, I take a dispose is a dispose employee is not a director, not a director. No, no, no. I think, um, probably give your 50% lower, little lower. I’d say, I’d say it’s to me 15% because under revenue legislation, a proprietary director, which is the person with 50% or greater, uh,

is also employing a spouse, uh, in the company as an employee. Um, they are students who are at the eight rigs, but they lose PA announcements. Notice there’s a PA aspect, but to pick up on and they think this is changing. The circumstances often appear side by side. It’s not a standard shared at the aggregate. So just be just because our let’s say his or her husband is a 50% shareholder,

if she’s an employee of that company. But if she, if she was a director, well then you’d have to look Employed under a contract for service on employees, across his employment, under a contract officer’s assess and flood person who would pay to process with somebody who’s running the business with somebody else would be insured at the expert that is still possible. They have a rule since 2013 in social welfare legislation that States that you cannot be insured if you have greater than 50% shareholding,

that doesn’t stop everybody else to be obviously on all the time. I’m sure it still depends on the nature of contract. So it’s still possible with zero shareholders and the company director to have a process. If you were running the business, if you’re not treated the same way as an employee, if you’re not subject to control direction. Yeah. I’m just,

I suppose, what mine did. You would’ve seen a response in the past as far, let’s say parents might not have control of a company. I’d say to my, maybe target 40% in distributors didn’t have a theater, a dealer shares what there was something in the constitution would affect. They said that that directors of the company ward and in NOAA States and in the past,

just they were taken to be class S is that still the case or is that It’s still the case when scope section who decided to investigate, Hey, we’ll ask for a copy of the memories of association or the article was sufficient. Okay. Find out what restrictions could be in place. So you could very well find a person might think they’re a boss.

I’m not sure totally under the control of somebody else, company over, but that can still be made because so Sharon really percentage is that you are engaged in running the business and monitor us regardless, present the shareholders.<inaudible> Yeah. Thank you very much, Brendan. That’s all this very insightful. And you know, there’s so many intrigued disease in this,

uh, you know, this, the pensions here that I know that I always find I get from her presentations. Um, again, you know, if you want to contact Brendan, his, his contact details are on the, on the slides there. Um, thanks very much. Oh, did you? Sorry, what if you’re looking for them Brendan up here.

So it’s self and seatbelt. Yeah. Alright. No, that’s fine. So thanks very much for, for, Hey, So there’s one<inaudible> on Prozac taking concession before hun we have my door key part that makes them, or even an issue, so, Okay.